FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
• Could you install it to mount behind the seat vs the front?
Unfortuntaly no. There will soon be a second row fire extinguisher mount but the desgin of this front mounted version does not lend well to the flat mount of the second row.
• Can I use the same mount for Driver's side and Passenger's side?
Although an ambidexturous design was originally what was after, no. But only because of the location of the transmission hump relative to the inside front mounting bolt for the seat. There is a curve there that needed to be designed into the mount.
• I'd be worried of a few things, corners and fire extinguishers. If someone slides out of their lifted or stock Land Cruiser, are they going to drag a leg or back over it coming out? Fire extinguishers have all sorts of sharp corners, pins and nozzles.
No issues going in or out. Of course I'm 6' so if you are throwing your knee in first then I don't know, maybe you could hit it. But thats a stretch. No hard corners and nothing sharp. As for the extinguisher itself, the mounting holes were made in such a way that the nozzle is pointed towards the transmission hump and where it was possible, nozzle pointed down. Of course you can decide to mount the fire extinguisher where you choose and in the orientation you choose.
• I like it but could you incorporate one with a storage door? With a lock? I'd put my wallet or my ammo in there. Or off to the side for my firearm.
Not at this time. This product was designed for fire safety in mind and the design was the simplest to be sure that it was released as soon as possible and would suit the needs to the most 80 series owners.
• I have the Safecraft model PB with halon 1211, would that work with your mount?
Yes. The intermediary 1/4" aluminum flat mounting plate would not be needed because the same angled pull-pin block can be mounted directly onto the Fire Extinguisher Mount without using the SafeCraft alumiinum mounting block. It will mount with supplied stainless socket head cap screws (SHCS).
• My fire extinguisher of choise does not come with any hardware to mount it to...really anything. Does your mount come with mounting hardware?
There is no hardware required to mount the Fire Extinguisher Mount to your Land Cruiser. All you are doing is removing the front seat bolts and putting the mount in location with the seat's mounting feet. As far as the hardware to attach your fire extinguisher's mount to the Wits' End Fire Extinguisher Mount, we will be supplying a small selection of standard hardware which will include button head cap screws, socket head cap screws and nylok nuts. Although we can't plan for every type of mounting option out there, we think we have most of the options covered. Any other hardware needed is up to the installer and can be purchased from any hardware store.
• Any decisions about adding switches or at least switch holes?
Yes, based on the interactions with MUD users on the IH8MUD.com website, it has been decided to add a single Toyota switch knock-out on the transmission side and (2) water-proof switch knock-outs on the door side. These knock-outs will be laser cut and powdercoated over. They will only get knocked-out if you intentilly want the hole to mount the switch. Wits' End will supply 1 or 2 switches that fit that side. We will not supply the Toyota switch, thats on you. ;)
• Like others, my concern is kicking the fire extinguisher on entry and exit, but also general leg room. I understand you are almost to product final, but it looks to me like it may not have to protrude so far forward on from the seat, like the profile could be slimmed down to move the mount back about an inch.
The issue is for seat movement. This works if you have your bottom seat all the way up and the entire seat all the way back. But if you need to drop the front of the bottom seat down then you are hitting the fire extinguisher. We played around with a few configurations and this made the most sense. The only reason we gave it any room to move is it seems most people have these things calles "spousal units" and "significant others" that sometimes need/want to drive the truck and they tend NOT be huge yeti beasts like us so sometimes tend to be "vertically challenged". If you catch my drift. Also, technically the fire extinguisher *could* be moved back another 1" or so BUT you loose mounting options, you lose switch options and you lose seat position options. I think I have narrowed down the size that will make the most number of people happy.
• Most vehicle fires are electrical. Ask any fire fighter and they will tell you a fire extinguisher of that size is worthless on an electrical fire along with most fires even with proper training. Your mount should hold cable cutters.
Although its not currently viewable, we are already working on an Accessory Panel Unit (APU-3 actually) that will address just that. But yes, could not agree more.
• Extinguishers will only suppress electrical fires until the extinguisher is empty then its back to burning.Agreed, which is why Battery Disconnects are so important
• All this talk about Halon and fire extinguishers, where can I find out a little more about these chemicals?
Some good info on the different chemicals and their effectiveness:
• Years ago, our patrol car fire suppression unit was in the trunk and worked just fine. It only takes a few additional seconds to run to the back and grab it vs kicking it every day. I realize, as a previous first responder that seconds count yet I also realize how infrequent it is actually used.Agreed, this is a possibility. But with the addition of rear-mounted tires on swing out bumpers this just exacerbates the problem. The other thing is, as a patrolman you were given fire safety training, assuming on a semi-regular basis, so and extra few seconds equal what Joe-Shmoe would be that has never had the training but is just trying to be a good samaritan.
• Is the switch a standard size, so if broken, had a problem, or wanted something else it can easily be replaced? I like your switch looks clean and simple. My only concern would be that if something happened or someone wanted a different switch it would be easy to find a replacement or change out if desired.The switch we chose was based on amperage/voltage rating and the fact that it is waterproof and compact. On a personal note I don't like big switches because I don't drive with big thick gloves. These waterproof switches are compact and can be placed in areas that are prone to wetness such as a door or a hatch or a hood. The switches themselves can be purchased from most electronics stores but we have secured PLENTY of these switches.
• I would prefer to have no slots. This way I can run a longer flashlight and or wire cutters etc. If one wants to add a switch later it would be easy to remove the mount and cut one out. I run a completely different size switch then what you have there. Just my thought.
The slots would not be on the flat top nor on the mounting surface. It would be on the triangle shaped ends, facing the door and the transmission hump. All of the switch holes will be knock-outs so it will appear as a flat panel unless you knock-out the tabs and then have access to the slot.
• When you actually mount it and tighten the bolts to the seat brackets, does it lift the leading edge up off the carpet? The reason I ask is that I have Husky liners that look like they would just come in contact with that edge near the floor-mat.
The mount is designed to sit snug along the angle of the seat weldment and the seat mount itself. Of you have floor liners that extend further than the stock floormats that is ok, they will just be under the fire extinguisher mount IF it goes that far.
• What about the standard quick release bracket found on H3R fire extinguishers? Those can be easily kicked open.
Did some more testing and this time with the Halon bottle. In reality, the H3R's Halon bottle quick release bracket will suck. It takes very little effort to just shuffle your feet around and then sproing! The latch is open. One way of mitigating this is to mount the entire extinguisher 180º. This puts the latching mechanism on bottom. Still very easy to open but less likely to bump it open, even after testing. The thing I don't like about that solution is that it puts the nozzle pointing up. I'm not worried about misfire since its an inert gas, but I am concerned about anything falling into the wide mouth nozzle and possibly clogging it. Very bad. Of course, the issue goes away if you are using any of the common push/pull pin releases readily available. You will also notice where the extinguisher is mounted relative to the bracket. It needs to be there because a lot of the nozzles protrude past the body of the extinguisher.
• Have you found any mount for the extinguisher you like better? I have been considering the Drake one but didn't know if it would push the extinguisher out onto the foot space too much.
I like the Drake mount a lot but it does push the fire extinguisher out by another 1.5". This doesn't help things if foot well space is a prime concern. The new hotness for me would be H3R's NB-300 quick release mount. Its made from fiberglass reinforced nylon, is relatively inexpensive and it sits rather flush.
• I'm assuming these will work with those of us with "poverty pack" manual AND cloth seats?
Still needs to be thoroughly tested.
• What about Quick Fists, can I use those?
Sure can. There are included mounting holes for the common 3" quick fist. Spacing will be for two Quick Fists with a typical 2.5lb extinguisher.
• Will the Amerex B386T Halotron fire extinguisher fit in your seat bracket?
The potential the issue is that this is the 5lb. I have not tested with any 5lb extinguishers but I do have room to clear the nozzles of the 2.5s. Now it looks as though the body does not go past the length of the nozzle so that is good news. If you are using the bracket 818S then the holes will line up just fine. If you are using the 821, 821S or 807 brackets then you would have to drill new holes. The 807 altogether though I don't think is a good choice for up front anyway.
• I've been worried about my two extinguishers the way that I have them mounted in the back of my LX450. Your product is exactly what I need. I would like to know about clearance issues for floor mats, especially the Husky or Weathertech. I've pretty much have concluded that I'm going to have to cut into them.
Preliminary measurements put the F.E.Mount on top of the weathertech mats. Have not received feedback with Husky yet. That being said it will rest on top of the mats as you tighten down the seat bolts. Of course this doesn't give me the warm fuzzies since it means that the mount doesn't sit quite at the angle it was meant to but for the mats I think you would be ok. The foot tab on my mount would wind up bending forward a little less than 1deg. It's snug but does work.
• Here is a photo of a (ham) radio head mount that I have attached to the front passenger's seat, driver-side mounting bolt. I'll take measurements. I'm hoping that you provide enough clearance for the mounting bolt that will enable me to continue to use this Lido Mount LM-300.
As for as the Lido mount, I'd need to know which side of the bolt you would be attaching from. There are welded wings on either side of the tab mounts added for strength and rigidity. This means the outside of both bolts are covered. If your mount works on the inside of the bolt then you are good to go, except...
You will now have a stacked mechanical height for the front seat bolts. Per NTSB guidelines, and general mechanical engineering principles, there is a certain amount of the bolt that MUST be proud of the nut that it's being installed into. On the 80 series there is sufficient thread to allow for the addition of my mount...or your LIDO mount, but likely not both. The best solution to this is to get the same diameter size bolt but about 5-10mm longer. This solves the mechanical strength issue designed into the seat hold down caused by the stacked height.
• If I install the bracket with the extinguisher it will take off about 2"? Is that correct? I think she can live with that but I don't think 3" or 4" will work. If you remember I'm mechanically challenged--I can install this myself correcto?From the seat all the way back, it will move forward a total of just under 2". I'm not sure what that loses overall but maybe 3". THAT being said, I am having spacer blocks being manufactured right now that will raise the front of the seats exactly .75" which will then easily clear the mount itself thus allowing the full range of forward movement on the seat. You could try it out and see if you can/she can live with it and/or wait for the spacer block to be ready to ship.
As far as installation, if you can turn a 3/8" ratchet with a 14mm 6-pointed socket several revolutions...twice to remove two bolts that hold down the front of the seat and then put my mount in those same bolt holes and align the bolts you took out to be thread back into the same bolt holes...then I think you will be alright. What I'm getting at is if you are worried, let your nanny or one of the kids install it
• The chair lift will allow the seat to move fully forward correct ? Will the seat still be safe in a collision ?
The Chair Lift will raise the chair .75" which is the same as Landtank's seat extenders. This will raise the front edge of the seat .75" higher which then allows the seat to move all the way forward and not contacting the mount at all.
Since its only changing the front seat height, and its steel and its not changing the overall geometry of the seat because you still have full adjustability, it should be safe in a collision by not causing any additional damage.